The Lawyer Life Podcast

Lawyer Personalities and Navigating Disagreements

• Autumn Noble • Season 2 • Episode 38

Share episode

Send me a note!

In this episode we explore the unique characteristics of lawyer personalities that can complicate disagreements and conversations. The discussion also highlights how specific personality traits, such as skepticism and urgency, can affect interpersonal relationships and communication. Ultimately, the episode concludes with a few simple tips to resolve disagreements and bridge gaps, even political ones. 

New episodes the first Wednesday of each month. Special releases and bonus episodes monthly.

RESOURCES: 

  • For research and studies referenced, visit: https://www.lawyerbrain.com/
  • How to Lawyer (for real) On Demand Series ($100 discount coupon is referenced in podcast): https://thelawyerlifecollective.com/how-to-lawyer-for-real-email-series/

Free coaching consult/coffee and more!: https://autumnnoble.as.me

WHERE YOU CAN FIND ME:

SHOP THE LAWYER LIFE COLLECTION on Etsy

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

Autumn G Noble (00:01)

You are listening to the Lawyer Life Podcast, episode number 38, Lawyer Personalities and Navigating Disagreements.

 

Welcome back my friends to this week's episode. Today we are digging into why we argue and how the unique characteristics of lawyer personalities can make it really difficult for us to overcome difficult disagreements and conversations.

 

Furthermore, I wanna talk about having an understanding of those unique characteristics of our personalities can help us bridge the gap with the people around us and those conversations and disagreements with those we love.

 

In full disclosure, I did not pick this topic realizing that today's episode would be released the day after one of the most contentious elections I have lived through.

 

However, I do find it a little bit of a sign from the universe that maybe this is the type of information that might be useful to all of us navigating the fallout from the election, whatever those may be. No, rather, I sit here several weeks off from the election.

 

wondering what this country is going to be like on the day that this podcast airs. So here I am being hopeful that this information will be useful and helpful to all of us in moving forward.

 

I was actually inspired to select this podcast topic because early in the month of October, I attended a state bar association meeting. And one of the breakout sessions was talking about lawyer personalities and the unique characteristics that make us a little bit different than the average population and how those differences can make it difficult for us to bridge the gap with other people.

 

At the time, I thought the information was mildly insulting, but surprisingly enlightening, especially as I found myself encountering some really difficult disagreements in my own personal life. And so I thought, gosh, I'm thinking back to this information that I got from the Bar Association, and I'm realizing that that is playing a role in how I'm interacting with my own partner.

 

Maybe it would be helpful to share this information with my podcast community. And here we are.

 

What's more, I am dedicating the entire month of November to relationships. So our newsletter this month, the blog this month, all the tips and tricks that are going to be coming out in our newsletter on Friday are going to be focusing on relationships and not just the relationship stuff that you can Google and get anywhere about how to navigate difficult relationships and conversations. No, I'm taking this stuff so much deeper and sharing with you what I have learned

 

in working with lawyers and the unique challenges that we face in bridging the gaps with other humans. If you're not a member of the newsletter, be sure to head over to the lawyerlifecollective.com and get on that list to make sure that you get the full newsletter that comes out this Friday.

 

So let's go ahead and unpack this topic that was not only prompted by the bar association meeting that I went to, but it was also part and parcel, a big fat disagreement that I had with my partner that came shortly after that. So I'm gonna talk to you about those personality characteristics that I learned, kind of my foundation and understanding of why we argue. And then I'm gonna talk a little bit about how mindfulness can help us bridge that

 

and how to overcome some of those really difficult disagreements with the people that we care about and love so much. I know that I personally have really struggled in this environment that we've been living in to have productive disagreements with the people around me. So once again, I'm hopeful that this information is timely for all of you.

 

Before we begin, I think it's important to set the stage and remember that our experience on this planet consists of two things. There are circumstances and facts outside of our control, things that happen that we're not able to change, events, people, things that people say, things that people do. Those are all things outside of our locus of control and we call them circumstances or just facts of life.

 

then we step into our power and get to decide what we want to think about all of those things that happen that are outside of our control. So we have no control over facts and circumstances, all of our control in how we think about those facts and circumstances.

 

For instance, I can't control how other people respond to the election. I can't control what they say, I can't control what they do. I can, however, control what I think about all of those things and what I do with respect to all of those things and what I make any of those things mean with respect to me and my place in this nation, on this planet, and in this world.

 

from those choices and my thoughts about the things outside of my control, I'm generating emotion and those emotions are gonna dictate everything I say or do about those circumstances that are outside of my control.

 

In doing this work, one of the things that I have found to be true again and again, whether we are talking about politics or whether we're talking about your birthday party or we're talking about your issues with your clients and your bosses, a recurring challenge that I see amongst my clients is the difficulty sometimes in separating

 

our opinions and our thoughts and beliefs from the facts and from the circumstances, right? It's very easy for us to tell ourselves our boss is a horrible human being and we treat it as if it were a fact. But it's not. It's just our opinion. And sometimes those opinions, they seem so factual. They seem like the only way of believing things to be.

 

And that is typically the first step that we start adding coaching is really recognizing that just because we believe something so strongly and so vehemently, just because we have a lot of historical evidence of our own to support our conclusions and our beliefs, it doesn't make them true. It doesn't make them factual. And it doesn't make them the reality for everybody else. And so part of our work is really recognizing

 

where our own opinions and beliefs show up and where facts begin and making sure that we're able to discern the difference between a fact and a circumstance and our opinions and beliefs about it. In one instance, we have power and we have choices and we can make whatever choice that we want that is wholly our right as humans.

 

And then the other end of the spectrum, it is just a neutral circumstance, something that's happened in this world. And we attribute good or bad to it with our thinking and with our opinions. Sometimes I find that people present in coaching and they've got such a spin on the circumstances in their life that it's difficult for them to understand that there's any other way of thinking about things.

 

And so a lot of our work is really just recognizing that we get really wrapped up in our own beliefs and our own opinions that we lose sight of the fact sometimes that they are just our beliefs and opinions and other people may have the exact opposite ones. And that's okay. It doesn't make us right and them wrong or vice versa. It just means that we have chosen to put energy behind different things. And so in that space,

 

it gives room for discourse and room for discussion. But it seems like for whatever reason over the last couple of years, it's been really difficult for people to discern where their opinions reside and where the facts reside and to not commingle the two. And I start there because in order for us to bridge a gap in a disagreement with another human being,

 

We have to understand when we are operating from our own opinions and beliefs that are our choices

 

and where other people are operating from their own opinions, beliefs, and choices. Because that is where we're able to access some empathy. But when we're both believing that our positions are factual and right and mutually exclusive to any other way of seeing things, the ability to bridge the gap is really not there. It has become a bit of a moot point.

 

because each party believes that their way is the only way of seeing things and they're not open to the possibility that their opinion could be flawed and their point of view or perspective could be flawed. And without that, it's difficult to bridge the gap. Now, I'm not, this episode is not intended to talk about politics and that's not what I'm intending to get into. But I share that because,

 

Oftentimes our disagreements with other people are not because of a disagreement about what happened and what the facts are. The disagreement is rooted in whose opinion and perspective is more right than the other person. And that's really helpful to know because when we recognize that and we realize that we can start to question and wonder

 

Why is their opinion on this so different from mine? Why is their belief about what's right and wrong so different than my belief about what's right and wrong? In that space of curiosity, we can start to access empathy, ask questions, listen, and diffuse the disagreement. But if we're starting from a place of my position is factual and right

 

There's very little room for movement there and it's best often in those situations just to walk away.

 

So moving forward from this premise that arguments and disagreements with other humans usually erupt not because there's a disagreement about the facts of what happened. Sometimes that's in there, but usually there's a general agreement about the situation and the facts. The issue then becomes whose thoughts about those circumstances and facts are more true

 

or more right.

 

now when you can start to look at a disagreement through that lens, it's a little bit easier to embrace this idea that just because I have my opinions and beliefs, it doesn't make them absolute. And it doesn't mean that everybody around me has to agree with them.

 

because our own personal thoughts and beliefs, they're not universal truths, and nobody around us has to subscribe to them. That is the beauty of being a human being is that we get to choose to believe whatever we want. But when we're having a disagreement with someone that we care about, that disconnect can be tremendously painful. And so our work really then becomes,

 

Not only owning, we have a disagreement in experience and opinions and stories that we're bringing to the table. And it's causing this tug of war about whose perception is more accurate and more right. When we approach a disagreement from that space, there's a lot more room for growth. So let me illustrate by a very simple example that I think we can probably all relate to.

 

I had a client who came to a coaching session and she was on fire at her husband.

 

because he did not call her on her anniversary and he didn't send her flowers to her office on their anniversary. And they hadn't been married that long and so she was really feeling kind of put out and thinking like this is how it's gonna be for the next 50 years, he's just never gonna care and on and on we go. And so through this lens of okay, her idea, her opinion is that her husband should have done this for her on her anniversary.

 

He had some form of an idea that he didn't need to do that. And so I asked her, know, why do you think he would not have done those things for you? Did he not know it was your anniversary? And she said, no, he knew. And I said, okay, well, if you had to guess why you think he believed it didn't need to be done that way, what do you think that's about? And she said, well,

 

You know, we had actually, we had gone out to dinner and kind of celebrated on our own. And, you know, he picked up the tab and it was really, you know, expensive. And we just kind of had our own little night and he wished me happy anniversary. But that was last week. And I'm sitting here thinking, OK, it's probably not that much of a stretch for him to be believing that that was enough, that he didn't need to do more, that that was their own private celebration.

 

And so I was talking through this with her and asking and kind of exploring, is it possible that that is the story that he's operating from and that there was no understanding on his part that he needed to do more? And the more we kind of talked about it and the more we unpacked it, she really started to realize like, okay, that would make sense. Like I understand him well enough to know that that's probably why.

 

he's doing this and that's why he's not showing up the way that I want to. It's not that he doesn't care, it's not that this is gonna be how it is for the next 50 years, it's because he thought he had already done enough. And that's a very minuscule example of how simply allowing yourself to see that people are operating from their own stories and history and lenses and understanding of life.

 

and that they are entitled to have different lenses and stories and approaches and opinions than we are. And if we can try and understand that other side, we're gonna get a lot farther in the relationship.

 

So here's what that's really trying to illustrate in a nutshell. When we're arguing with another human being, when we're disagreeing with another human being, we're often clinging to our own chosen thought and lens as if it were universal and factual. But it's just our perspective. Shifting from arguing to understanding starts with realizing that our own thoughts are not the only version of reality and they're not the only way of seeing.

 

I know that can be pill to swallow, but getting to that curiosity and trying to understand the other person is the bridge that's going to take you there and diffuse the situation. Now let's add another layer of complexity here and talk about us as lawyers and how our unique little Picadillo's can make this even more challenging.

 

As I mentioned, my idea for this podcast episode came to me when I was sitting in a Bar Association event and they were presenting data from a study on lawyers and lawyer personality characteristics. And the presenter went through all sorts of personality disorders to begin with. And so at the outset, I was sort of feeling judged and feeling criticized, but...

 

At the end of the day, I was able to kind of get some really interesting nuggets out of it about how we as lawyers are maybe just a little bit different than the rest of the world around us. And those nuggets really came back to hit me in the face when I had a disagreement with my husband a little bit later and I started to understand this is why these little things drive me nuts.

 

when I'm having a disagreement with someone. And I'm gonna share all of those in that ugly truth with you today.

 

At the presentation that I was attending, the presenter worked through a variety of different personality characteristics, but I wanna focus on three that are unique to lawyers that I think really come up in disagreements. And those are the following. Lawyers have a statistically higher rate of skepticism and urgency and a lower rate of cognitive empathy

 

than the rest of the population. We're gonna go through each of those and I'll explain them and how I have seen them come up in my life.

 

Let's start with the trait of skepticism.

 

People who score high for the trait of skepticism tend to be skeptical, maybe even a little bit cynical, judgmental, questioning, argumentative, and even somewhat self-protective.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, people with low skepticism tend to be a bit more trusting of other human beings. They're more accepting of others and they give others the benefit of the doubt more readily than those who score higher on the skepticism scale.

 

In the study that they cited, they had done some research at a large law firm and found that the lawyers at that law firm scored in the 90th percentile for skepticism rates. Meaning the vast majority of the lawyers in that firm were much more skeptical of

 

information being provided to them than most average human beings would be.

 

This means that we tend to be a little bit more judgmental and questioning everything that comes our way, which can be certainly beneficial as attorneys. It is our job to make sure that we're very clear on the facts and we know where the opinions lie and we know where the facts lie and we know what that line is. Skepticism helps us get there. But you can imagine how in interpersonal relationships, this can become very challenging.

 

When we approach interpersonal relationships, mentoring, for example, or teaching, for example, when we allow skepticism to participate in those types of interactions, it can really hinder collaboration because it can have a little bit of a cooling effect on people around us when they feel like we're constantly not trusting the things that they are saying, right? It's hard to build a relationship around a lack of trust.

 

For me, I found this to be the most relevant and maybe this is a characteristic that hit closest to home for me. I was recently having a disagreement with my partner and I was really wanting to understand his perspective. I knew I needed to get there and I probably should get there right, but I was having a hard time because I was challenging everything he was saying.

 

He would say something and I'd say, well, where are you getting that from? What are your facts? Like, where did you read that? What is your source? And he's looking at me like, why are you coming at me like that? I'm just telling you, this is what I think. And I wasn't even doing it from a space of trying to be a jerk. Like, I wasn't going to give any credence to his opinion unless I could understand it and wrap my arms around its factual

 

research-based support and his inability to provide me with that level of detail totally shut me down and I was completely judging his perspective. Maybe this sounds familiar to some of you, but it certainly, I had an aha moment where I realized this is why I do that because if I don't get that type of data, I don't buy the argument because I don't have a lot of cognitive

 

empathy. So let's go ahead and get to the second personality characteristic of lawyers. We score low on cognitive empathy, lower than most other humans.

 

Cognitive empathy is different from kind of emotional empathy and cognitive empathy means that we have ease of ability in understanding other people's points of view and perspectives like pretty readily and I think because of our high level of skepticism as lawyers This is just hard for us and I found this really hard for me if someone can't provide me with their support

 

their facts, their research or their foundation for a statement, I can't access cognitive empathy at all. I just throw their arguments out the window as if they're just completely ridiculous. And so to me, the skepticism and the cognitive empathy really go hand in hand, right? Skepticism kind of leads and if I can't overcome that,

 

then the cognitive empathy really kind of pushes me away from them and I don't understand their point of view because I feel like they haven't adequately explained it or backed it up.

 

It may seem that this makes a lot of sense for lawyers, right?

 

we are trained to think critically and to not really just accept everything that's given our way. But again, in personal relationships, we have to understand the line between skepticism or the need for skepticism and the need to kind of find a way to empathize cognitively with other people's points of view, to set that skepticism aside and see if we can access any way

 

to appreciate their point of view, despite their inability to overcome all of our skeptical questionings and demands for foundation. Because absent that, every disagreement that we have where someone's not adequately prepared and educated in their opinion, we really do kind of put up a wall and have a really hard time seeing things from their point of view.

 

The last personality characteristic that they talked about at this session was lawyers tendency to score higher on the characteristic trait of urgency, which again, I think really benefits our clients, especially for those of us that bill by the minute, but it's just kind of that fast paced world of law that we live

 

When I say urgency, it's our desire to get to the point. It can make us very impatient, but it can also make us very results-focused, which clients appreciate. According to the data cited in the study, lawyers scored 20 % higher on the urgency scale than the average population.

 

you know you're operating with a higher sense of urgency. When you catch yourself really wishing that they would just get to the point or finishing other people's sentences or finishing other people's thoughts, this can make us come across as poor listeners, which can be incredibly frustrating, not only to colleagues, but to those people in our personal lives.

 

For me personally, this higher sense of urgency again plays right into my struggle with skepticism. If I ask someone a direct question and they don't give me a direct answer and instead they tap dance around it, my skepticism steps right in and doesn't believe anything they say. I feel like they're being evasive. I feel like they don't wanna give me the answer. I feel like they're trying to hide something from me.

 

and then cognitive empathy comes in, which is really low, and I just start writing off their perspective and not really trying to see things from their point of view at all. And for me, sometimes it really is driven by that sense of urgency and skepticism. If someone is not getting to the point, it tells me that they're not prepared, that they're hiding something, and whatever it is, gives me, theoretically, a lot of reasons just to dismiss what they're saying.

 

But what I have to remind myself again and again is that people process information and process their own thoughts in very different ways. My partner, for example, processes things verbally. And for someone with a high rate of urgency, this can drive me mad. And this again, I think is why meditation and mindfulness are so essential.

 

for people with higher rates of because my mindfulness practice has really helped me plug in with my mind and my body in those moments. When I feel myself clenching my hands or like getting tense, waiting for somebody to get to the point, I know that that sense of urgency.

 

has really kicked in and I really have to watch my thoughts and remind myself that maybe they're just processing, maybe they're trying to come to their own conclusion and they really are trying to answer my question and they're not being evasive. Maybe I've made them uncomfortable and they're rambling, you know, but really being open to the possibility that there may be some other reason why they're taking longer to answer the question. But for me, it's, I noticed it in my body.

 

right away, I tense up, I clench my jaw, and then I see my thoughts, kind of judging them for not just getting to the point. And so again, that sort of mindfulness work can help us tune into that urgency level. They can make it difficult again to bridge gaps in disagreements.

 

So the takeaway on that one is to just slow down and start being a little bit more mindful of other people's pacing and how they process data and having a little bit of compassion for the rest of the population that doesn't have such high sense of urgency. Again, I think this is why mindfulness practice is so absolutely needed in the legal industry because when we can get better, it's slowing down.

 

and breathing and just being present in the moment, it's the perfect counteraction to that urgency that can make it difficult for us to connect with other humans.

 

So to put this all together, when we are having a difficult disagreement with somebody, remembering that we come to the table with unique personality traits that can make it very difficult for others to disagree with us or be heard by us. That higher level of skepticism is going to make us demand facts and foundation and information that the other person simply might not be able to provide.

 

They may simply only want to provide us with their own opinions. And we have to decide to be okay with that and not push them for more, but also let that be enough and let their opinion be enough

 

and own that they are entitled to have it, regardless of how well researched or founded it may be.

 

their lack of preparedness with the facts and the research that we so desperately want doesn't necessarily make their perspective and point of view less important. And so what I have found to be helpful in that moment is just to say, I'm having a hard time understanding how you reach that conclusion. And I think I need to maybe take a step back, do my own research.

 

to overcome my own skepticism so that maybe I can give your opinion a little bit more credence and not be so dismissive of it. I have found that that really works with my partner, especially when we're disagreeing about something political and he doesn't have all the data to back it up. I have to go and do my own work, come back to the table and have a little bit more compassion for, okay.

 

there is some evidence out there to support his opinion as well. Maybe he didn't have it on hand and that's annoying to me, but that doesn't mean I don't have to listen to it and it doesn't mean I can't honor and respect his thoughts on the matter as well. Cognitive empathy is gonna follow with that as well. And I think just owning, I'm having a hard time understanding your perspective. I'm gonna take a step back, do my own work.

 

and see if I can access some empathy by doing my own research and gathering my own data. I have found for me as frustrating it is that I have to go do the legwork for other people's opinions that I don't agree with. I have found that me being able to do that yields so much greater success than expecting them to do it for me and have it readily available. Instead, I can go back to the table knowing

 

Okay, like I can understand that perspective a little bit more and not judging them for having it right on hand to offer me to defend themselves. Lastly, utilizing mindfulness or meditation to slow down and be present in the moment. See what's happening in your body, see what's happening in your brain and see whether that level of urgency that has created success in our legal career.

 

is potentially drawing out differences and difficult conflicts in our personal lives. Taking a breath and giving space for people to communicate a little bit differently and maybe a little bit more slowly than we do.

 

As lawyers, we are often skeptical, fast-paced, and highly focused on the facts. But those same traits can make it sometimes difficult for us to navigate disagreements, especially with people that we care about.

 

By becoming aware of our own tendencies, practicing mindfulness and working to access more compassion and empathy and information on our own time, we can transform how we can communicate and resolve conflicts with the people both in the office but also at home.

 

you found this information to be helpful and And I would love to hear from you and see how this information resonated with you. I will include a link in the show notes that provides some of the data that was referenced at the Bar Association meeting that I referenced in putting together this podcast.

 

in case you want to read more about the interesting and odd characteristics of us as attorneys. For now, thank you so much for tuning in and thank you so much for sharing with your friends. As I mentioned at the outset this month, we are focusing all on relationships and dealing with the humans. If you want more information on dealing with difficult people, dealing with family as we approach the holidays, you are not going to want to miss this week's newsletter coming out on Friday.

 

And if by chance you're listening to this a little bit late, all the newsletter archives are also posted on my website, thelawyerlifecollective.com.

 

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a rave review.

 

don't forget, in two weeks I will be releasing another guided meditation that's focusing on relationships and difficult people.

 

The work that we do on relationships is so important and transformative. In my series, How to Lawyer for Real, we spend one entire week focusing on relationships and how to build and transform relationships and how to fix the bad ones. If you are interested in digging into the How to Lawyer for Real series, which is a six week email series,

 

that will provide you with all of the secrets that I have learned that every lawyer needs to know in order to create true success in law. Head over to the lawyerlifecollective.com and sign up for the How to Lawyer On Demand email series and get started today. As a bonus, all of my podcast listeners, I am giving you $100 off the How to Lawyer For Real email series.

 

head over to the LawyerLifeCollective.com and sign up for the How to Lawyer for Real series using the coupon code PODLOVE, P-O-D-L-O-V-E. Thank you again for listening. I so appreciate you and I look forward to hearing from all of you.